http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01.....pires.html

Since it’s an election year, it’s time to make tthe politicians an offer they can’t refuse- get rid of the ethanol blending requirement, or we the people will get rid of them…

Additionally…although the 89 octane costs more per gallon, the increased efficiency provides a lower total cost. For example, today’s gas price was $3.30 for 87 (E10) gas and $3.50 for 89 octane. Assuming 30 mpg (87-E10) and 32 mpg (89)…the total cost to drive 400 miles would be $44 for 87-E10 and $43.75 for 89.

I’m sticking with 89. Better fuel economy and lower cost. Done.

The E10 blend is a sham.

That’s awesome.

If you’re not much of a reader, I’ll throw you a bone and hook you up with a couple of the more pertinent bits of data, like:

1) Some users suffer a 10%, or greater, decline in fuel efficiency when using E10.

2) Some users have to rebuild engines, replace fuel systems, replace fuel filters, etc., because of ethanol — which certainly isn’t a negligible expense, and since it’s a *variable* expense depending on the cost of each system, to suggest that it would always equal a hypothetical cost benefit to ethanol is completely absurd. Especially since there’s no cost benefit to ethanol for most people. Even with the subsidies, most people find, at the absolute best, that ethanol barely breaks even on a cost-per-mile-of-fuel basis.

3) While those breakeven, or nearly breakeven, people may exist, there are a *ton* of us who don’t break even. Not even remotely even. Even ignoring repair expenses, we pay far more per mile to travel with ethanol contaminated gas.

Kinda why this thread exists. But, again, thanks for jumping in without so much as a cursory glance at the ground we’ve already covered. After all, we were probably just saying a bunch of stuff because we wanted to fill space, right?

Ostensively, 10% ethanol blends are to cut imports of foreign gas into the U.S. However, if mpg from 10% blends drop 5% & higher for a large percentage of vehicles using 10% ethanol blends, the political policies to use 10% ethanol blends fail to cut imported gas stocks much at all.

There seem to be some methods which may or may not raise mpg for those people using 10% ethanol blend gasolines if your vehicle is missing the sweet spot of efficient combustion. Re-jetting the fuel injection system may help. Since ethanol has higher octane than 100% gasoline, possibly a re-timing could help. I’m sure the mechanics here will also have other ideas.

However, the best way to avoid mpg drops & the 10% ethanol blend blues is to use 100% gasoline, for which gasoline engines were made to run efficiently AND WITH WHICH the EPA RUNS ITS MPG RATINGS FOR EVERY BRAND OF GASOLINE VEHICLE.

Crop subsidies make for wasteful and unnatural market conditions — as well as making it difficult for us to negotiate trade agreements because other countries point to the b.s. way we prop up our farmers as an example of our protectionism. We can’t exactly complain when they subsidize their heavy industry, when we’re doing the exact same time to giant corporate farming concerns sucking at the welfare teat.

Free trade helps America, but we can’t get free trade because pig headed farming concerns demand, and receive, government handouts no matter which party is in power.

Worse yet, mandates like the e10 initiative, which force ethanol-contaminated gasoline onto the rest of us poor bastards serve as a tax benefiting farmers at the expense of *everyone* else which actually costs us more than if the government would simply tax us 10 percent on every gallon of gas and send the cash directly to farmers. By, instead, forcing us to buy ethanol from those farmers, we spend the same money but it costs us *extra* in the form of damage to our fuel systems, and fuel economy results which are, at times, even worse than if we’d simply taken that ten percent ethanol, removed it from our fuel tanks, poured it on the ground, and lit it on fire.

Ethanol is an abysmal fraud where a tiny minority of the country benefits at enormous cost to the vast majority of us.

No I WILL NOT USE ETHANOL, AND IF I HAVE A CHOICE TO SUE THE GOVERNMENTS OR LOCAL GOVERNMENTS I WOULD, AS WELL AS THE GAS COMPANIES.

PS this is my Opinion, don’t send me any neg feedback or messages of that nature I will delete them. sorry.

Its very humid in Florida no wonder why you find Marinas with non-ethanol gasoline. just an thought I had. hey not bad heay.

Acetone is B.S. as a fuel additive, and has ROUTINELY been debunked as the same. Mothballs to the fuel tank don’t do ANYTHING, and at the VERY least, you’d want to just add napthalene — because your car doesn’t run on solids.

I don’t mind stupid, bad ideas for fuel economy, but some of the things you’ve suggested are downright dangerous. What’s more, we’ve just explained, AT LENGTH, in this thread how it’s the presence of water which causes the mileage to implode with E10. So your solution is to add MORE WATER in the form of a hydrogen peroxide solution? You’d cause some of the gasoline to oxidize with the h202, while the rest would watch nasty little water globules form, surrounded by moisture-hungry ethanol. Just what *I* want in my gas tank — partially oxidized fuel cut with some water-and-ethanol globs. Perfect for clogging fuel filters and retarding combustion.

Here is how to turn the tables on the government and now get even better mileage with the E10 gas.

Get some naphthalene only moth balls. Naphthalene is already in gas and diesel fuel. Take two of them and tap them to powder on a rag. Spoon 1 and 1/2 into a small jar of gasoline.

Find a health food store that sells 35% food grade hydrogen peroxide. Add 23 millimeters of it to your mix, shake it up and add that to the equivalent of 5 imperial gallons of gasoline.

Hydrogen peroxide when blended with ethanol mixes completely and produces a superior fuel. Your making
a very inexpensive octane boost. You are turning the tables by getting even better mileage than you did with the old regular gas.

Sally’s Hair care supply sells hydrogen peroxide by volume. 40 volume is about 12% hydrogen peroxide. It has a lot of stabilizers in it because it sits on the shelf for a long time.

This would benefit our situation but I haven’t experimented with it yet to be able to report any results. I’m going to start by adding 23 millimeters of it and go up from there. The water in the hydrogen peroxide is completely emulsified by the ethanol in the gas. Each city or town has a couple of Sally’s franchised locations.

A pinch of potassium permanganate will improve the results even more but I don’t know what percentage to add yet.

I have yet to consult with my chemist.

Report your results here.

NASCAR carried out this experiment for us recently – inadvertently. Someone got the bright idea of running race cars on E10 instead of gas or pur ethanol. They ran very poorly! So the gas refiner (I think Chevron) made a special truck that sealed against ANY H2O, and made special fuel loaders that sealed against ANY H2O – and the cars ran ok.

Note that the government requires that the gas refiners mix in Ethanol and guarantee that there is NO MORE THAN 1% H2O. So our government prevents full separatation of Ethanol+H2o, but not performance-killing “clumping”.

You are welcome, America! Now let’s do something about this disaster!

Have a 2002 Dodge 3500 flat bed. Before Ethnol got 14mpg hauling a 28′ trailer over 8 states. With 5% Ethnol dropped to 12mpg (no trailer). With 10% Ethnol dropped to 9 mpg.

With Chain Saws, Small Engines, Lawn Mowers I have been required to provide much higher maintenance.

As a business I can write off this cost, which helps. As an individual one has to EAT the cost.

The above is real. I have the receipts to prove it.

I can tell you what is realistic is the old steam engine’s to bad they don’t make them again now with the technology he have today is better then the 1900’s.

i was watching my gas mileage closely trying to squeeze every mile i could out of gas by improving my technique was a major necessity as gas was nearing 4 dollars a gallon – the circle k near where i work in kiethville la had gas at 3.91 – where i bought at at j j’s fasttrac in mansfield it was 3.96

so i tried that gas at circle k for 2 weeks that year and yes i noticed the pumps had E-10 stickers on them
1st fill up i got 32 miles to a gallon

next fillup i got 28 mpg

next fillup i got 26 mpg

it got to 22 on the next – i thought my tank was leaking so i checked it no gas smell – so i thought someone was stealing gas out of my car so i locked it

i filled up 1 last time at that circle k and drove home i came back the next day and the guage was almost exactly where i filled up the day previous and i had to get gas after just driving a total of 90 miles and fill up – normal i drive about 210 miles or more and fill up – it checked in at 18mpg

i switched back to my station i had been using close to my home and had used for about 10 years which is j j fastrac in Mansfield La – there was some increase in gas milage about 28mpg – it took a total 5 fillups for my car to get back to normal – someone i talked to told me it was the ethanol in the gas and i did not use it again the CIRCLE K had and has a E-10 STICKER on their pumps

i wondered if it was true so this last MAY 2010 i decided i would see if that was a fluke – it wasn’t

THE GAS MILEAGE DROPPED and i immediatly stopped due to that and a fear it might be ruining my engine if all they say is true

non ethanol gas stations are rare here now – i am lucky there still several around and i have a list from an online source that has their locations

you can find some for your state – here is the one for louisiana – http://petelandrysrealgas.com/locations.php

its the same for a Car, my uncle’s 2010 Eclipse 4 cyl handbook has not to exceed 10% ethanol or will avoid warranty,, Yes it does say to use oxygenates blends fuels to lower co2 but the new test show that 2007 and newer can take a 15%, but what if it causes damage to the car?(Engine, fuel system or sensors) do you pay for it? or will the car company pay for it?

most of the newer cars has metal gas tanks but some older in the 90’s has some type of plastic fuel tanks and rubber fuel hoses, so I don’t think they can use a above that 10, should not use any in my mind at all.

I tired to protest ethanol but no more, they will get to you if you do, so just live with it like I did.

cheers

With the older vehicles out there that need to use regular gas should have a choice to run in in their vehicles. You dont see a leaded gas station serving gas for a unleaded only vehicle or a Diesel fuel only for a unleaded fuel only vehicle. So why an ethonol fuel at any level only in a “UNLEADED GAS ONLY” vehicle. Diesel has three types offered, off road, sulfer, non sulfer blends and now bio diesel so thats four types. Why not gas until all gas only vehicles are replaced by Flex fuel or electric cars (This would be my vehicle of choice, 100% electric).

you dont see a air plane put diesel fuel in the tank, or gas instead of jet fuel, the reason its not made for it. This is my point ETHONOL in a GAS ONLY Engine is not made for it. And to any person that is going to say “Ethonol is good and clean for the environment !!” I agree to that to the point that if the engine is designed solely for that specific blend of fuel then it is good to use, like the E-85 flux fuel engines.

But for a regular burning gasoline engine to put it into is not good at all. Yes I do believe in what was said above that Govenment has power over the “We the People..” and we are now the slaves to the state.

Thank you for reading my take on ethonol gas in my trucks and the opinion I have on this fuel.

I dont think you ready my post, I said the Government should subsidize the regular gas like they did for Ethanol fuels, the Ethanol subsidies is about 50Cent for ethanol fuels however I was not talking about that. what I was saying was instead of paying 4.25 a gallon for non ethanol gas they should pay in a 1.00 of subsides to make the price more affordable to a recovering economy and be 3.25 a gallon
thats what I was talking about, I don’t know what you were talking about.
thanks

Enough is enough. What a scam!