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	<title>Comments on: Just Say No to the Double House Payment Trap</title>
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	<description>personal finance tips, tricks, and commentary</description>
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		<title>By: Kevin@OutOfYourRut</title>
		<link>http://www.fivecentnickel.com/2009/09/10/just-say-no-to-the-double-house-payment-trap/comment-page-1/#comment-134854</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin@OutOfYourRut</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Sep 2009 16:38:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fivecentnickel.com/?p=3543#comment-134854</guid>
		<description>Rosa, that&#039;s a really good point.  Long term fixed rate loans became popular in the 30s and 40s as the workforce was unionizing, and it worked well after that as employment become more stable.

Today, the unionized work force is a fraction of the size it was a few decades ago, the job market is much less stable, and we&#039;re still signing on to 30 year mortgages.  Low and no down payments make the risk even deeper.

It might not be a bad idea to consider the long term stability of your career field, to the degree that anyone can, in determining if buying is really the best option.  In much of the country right now, people are having to move to other states to find work in their fields.  That&#039;s probably adding to the foreclosure problem.

These are complicated times, and hopefully we&#039;re all learning a few things from them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rosa, that&#8217;s a really good point.  Long term fixed rate loans became popular in the 30s and 40s as the workforce was unionizing, and it worked well after that as employment become more stable.</p>
<p>Today, the unionized work force is a fraction of the size it was a few decades ago, the job market is much less stable, and we&#8217;re still signing on to 30 year mortgages.  Low and no down payments make the risk even deeper.</p>
<p>It might not be a bad idea to consider the long term stability of your career field, to the degree that anyone can, in determining if buying is really the best option.  In much of the country right now, people are having to move to other states to find work in their fields.  That&#8217;s probably adding to the foreclosure problem.</p>
<p>These are complicated times, and hopefully we&#8217;re all learning a few things from them.</p>
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		<title>By: Rosa</title>
		<link>http://www.fivecentnickel.com/2009/09/10/just-say-no-to-the-double-house-payment-trap/comment-page-1/#comment-134851</link>
		<dc:creator>Rosa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Sep 2009 16:28:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fivecentnickel.com/?p=3543#comment-134851</guid>
		<description>Kevin, in the early &#039;80s, my parents owned THREE houses at once - one they had paid cash for, but which they were still paying taxes and upkeep on, one they had bought when my dad was transferred to a new area for his job, where my mom and infant brother stayed behind to keep having open houses, and one in the new place dad was transferred to after 6 months, where I started elementary school.
 
It wasn&#039;t just the high interest rates - companies were re-organizing and shrinking operations like crazy because of the recession and people were having to move for jobs.
 
I actually wonder, with people changing jobs so much, and families so scattered, if homeownership really is a good idea for most of us - my partner has pretty specialized skills and if something happened to his company he would have to choose between finding another job in his little niche, or starting over in a slightly different part of his field so we could stay here. And if, God forbid, his parents needed us nearby because they became disabled or ill, one or the other family would have to move to a new state.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kevin, in the early &#8217;80s, my parents owned THREE houses at once &#8211; one they had paid cash for, but which they were still paying taxes and upkeep on, one they had bought when my dad was transferred to a new area for his job, where my mom and infant brother stayed behind to keep having open houses, and one in the new place dad was transferred to after 6 months, where I started elementary school.</p>
<p>It wasn&#8217;t just the high interest rates &#8211; companies were re-organizing and shrinking operations like crazy because of the recession and people were having to move for jobs.</p>
<p>I actually wonder, with people changing jobs so much, and families so scattered, if homeownership really is a good idea for most of us &#8211; my partner has pretty specialized skills and if something happened to his company he would have to choose between finding another job in his little niche, or starting over in a slightly different part of his field so we could stay here. And if, God forbid, his parents needed us nearby because they became disabled or ill, one or the other family would have to move to a new state.</p>
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		<title>By: Financial Samurai</title>
		<link>http://www.fivecentnickel.com/2009/09/10/just-say-no-to-the-double-house-payment-trap/comment-page-1/#comment-134816</link>
		<dc:creator>Financial Samurai</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 19:35:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fivecentnickel.com/?p=3543#comment-134816</guid>
		<description>Kevin - I wrote an article entitled &quot;Property Makes People Think Irrationally&quot; after one of our fellow publishers asked the community whether he should buy this property with &quot;13%&quot; down.  I was shocked that someone who writes personal finance couldn&#039;t understand the fallacy of his reasoning, since he has nothing left after the down payment.

I&#039;m bullish on housing here, and plan to buy another rental.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kevin &#8211; I wrote an article entitled &#8220;Property Makes People Think Irrationally&#8221; after one of our fellow publishers asked the community whether he should buy this property with &#8220;13%&#8221; down.  I was shocked that someone who writes personal finance couldn&#8217;t understand the fallacy of his reasoning, since he has nothing left after the down payment.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m bullish on housing here, and plan to buy another rental.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin@OutOfYourRut</title>
		<link>http://www.fivecentnickel.com/2009/09/10/just-say-no-to-the-double-house-payment-trap/comment-page-1/#comment-134811</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin@OutOfYourRut</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 18:09:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fivecentnickel.com/?p=3543#comment-134811</guid>
		<description>Financial Samuri--I think there&#039;s also a sense that you can&#039;t lose on a house.  That may be true traditionally, but this is a very different market than any most have seen in a very long time.

A lot of homeowners are too young to have participated in the housing market of the early 1980s.  That was a bad one too, but of course double digit interest rates were the obvious culprit then.  We don&#039;t have that to blame this time around, so this market is harder to figure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Financial Samuri&#8211;I think there&#8217;s also a sense that you can&#8217;t lose on a house.  That may be true traditionally, but this is a very different market than any most have seen in a very long time.</p>
<p>A lot of homeowners are too young to have participated in the housing market of the early 1980s.  That was a bad one too, but of course double digit interest rates were the obvious culprit then.  We don&#8217;t have that to blame this time around, so this market is harder to figure.</p>
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		<title>By: Financial Samurai</title>
		<link>http://www.fivecentnickel.com/2009/09/10/just-say-no-to-the-double-house-payment-trap/comment-page-1/#comment-134805</link>
		<dc:creator>Financial Samurai</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 17:14:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fivecentnickel.com/?p=3543#comment-134805</guid>
		<description>Very good post, and I agree 100%!  For some reason, people fall in love with property all the time and literally BLOW THEMSELVES up financially as a result. Good one guys.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very good post, and I agree 100%!  For some reason, people fall in love with property all the time and literally BLOW THEMSELVES up financially as a result. Good one guys.</p>
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		<title>By: Nickel</title>
		<link>http://www.fivecentnickel.com/2009/09/10/just-say-no-to-the-double-house-payment-trap/comment-page-1/#comment-134803</link>
		<dc:creator>Nickel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:48:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fivecentnickel.com/?p=3543#comment-134803</guid>
		<description>I should add... Our former neighbors got stuck with two houses for a year or so. They built houses on the side and when they&#039;d finish, they&#039;d put both their current house and the new one on the market, keeping (and living in) whichever one didn&#039;t sell.

Unfortunately, they got greedy and built a house they couldn&#039;t afford to live in -- right around the time the market tanked. They finished it, put it on the market, and it didn&#039;t sell. They eventually had to put their own home on the market, too, and that one ultimately sold. Since the new house is much more expensive than they can actually afford, it&#039;s still on the market (and *still* hasn&#039;t sold). If/when it eventually sells, they&#039;ll have to move again. I can&#039;t even begin to imagine the financial havoc this has created for them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I should add&#8230; Our former neighbors got stuck with two houses for a year or so. They built houses on the side and when they&#8217;d finish, they&#8217;d put both their current house and the new one on the market, keeping (and living in) whichever one didn&#8217;t sell.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, they got greedy and built a house they couldn&#8217;t afford to live in &#8212; right around the time the market tanked. They finished it, put it on the market, and it didn&#8217;t sell. They eventually had to put their own home on the market, too, and that one ultimately sold. Since the new house is much more expensive than they can actually afford, it&#8217;s still on the market (and *still* hasn&#8217;t sold). If/when it eventually sells, they&#8217;ll have to move again. I can&#8217;t even begin to imagine the financial havoc this has created for them.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin@OutOfYourRut</title>
		<link>http://www.fivecentnickel.com/2009/09/10/just-say-no-to-the-double-house-payment-trap/comment-page-1/#comment-134802</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin@OutOfYourRut</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:18:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fivecentnickel.com/?p=3543#comment-134802</guid>
		<description>Alexandra--This is just my experience from being in the business, and the main reason I wrote the article--most people overestimate their understanding of the real estate market.  There&#039;s a perception that it&#039;s simpler than it is.

Often they rely on an experience they had a few years ago, or what their parents and friends tell them.  But the market changes, sometimes dramatically, and people&#039;s knowledge tends to lag behind the trend.  Selling a house into a weak market is radically different from selling into a strong one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alexandra&#8211;This is just my experience from being in the business, and the main reason I wrote the article&#8211;most people overestimate their understanding of the real estate market.  There&#8217;s a perception that it&#8217;s simpler than it is.</p>
<p>Often they rely on an experience they had a few years ago, or what their parents and friends tell them.  But the market changes, sometimes dramatically, and people&#8217;s knowledge tends to lag behind the trend.  Selling a house into a weak market is radically different from selling into a strong one.</p>
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		<title>By: Alexandra</title>
		<link>http://www.fivecentnickel.com/2009/09/10/just-say-no-to-the-double-house-payment-trap/comment-page-1/#comment-134801</link>
		<dc:creator>Alexandra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:06:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fivecentnickel.com/?p=3543#comment-134801</guid>
		<description>I know of several people trapped into paying two mortgages for over a year.  Both couples were inexperienced &quot;flippers&quot; who thought they could make some quick money.  I felt really bad for them - in addition to the huge hit it cost them in terms of finances, the stress they endured during this time was immense, and definitely affected their health.

I was purposely in the position where I paid two mortages for a month - I wanted to renovate my newly purchased home before I moved in, so we stayed in our old house for a month, then moved in when everything was ready.  Yes it cost us an extra mortgage payment, but it was well worth it to avoid living in a dusty, dirty, paint-fume-filled construction zone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know of several people trapped into paying two mortgages for over a year.  Both couples were inexperienced &#8220;flippers&#8221; who thought they could make some quick money.  I felt really bad for them &#8211; in addition to the huge hit it cost them in terms of finances, the stress they endured during this time was immense, and definitely affected their health.</p>
<p>I was purposely in the position where I paid two mortages for a month &#8211; I wanted to renovate my newly purchased home before I moved in, so we stayed in our old house for a month, then moved in when everything was ready.  Yes it cost us an extra mortgage payment, but it was well worth it to avoid living in a dusty, dirty, paint-fume-filled construction zone.</p>
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		<title>By: Ellen</title>
		<link>http://www.fivecentnickel.com/2009/09/10/just-say-no-to-the-double-house-payment-trap/comment-page-1/#comment-134800</link>
		<dc:creator>Ellen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 14:40:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fivecentnickel.com/?p=3543#comment-134800</guid>
		<description>You make many good points, though the one I believe most people fail to consider (even on their first home purchase) is that there are more expenses involved in buying a house than just the mortgage and the closing costs. There are appliances, repairs, utilities, insurance, local taxes, furniture, and decor, that can really add up. This is even more cumbersome if you have the burden of an additional mortgage from your previous home. Be sure before you buy that you take all of these important expenses into consideration and are sure that you will be able to pay them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You make many good points, though the one I believe most people fail to consider (even on their first home purchase) is that there are more expenses involved in buying a house than just the mortgage and the closing costs. There are appliances, repairs, utilities, insurance, local taxes, furniture, and decor, that can really add up. This is even more cumbersome if you have the burden of an additional mortgage from your previous home. Be sure before you buy that you take all of these important expenses into consideration and are sure that you will be able to pay them.</p>
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		<title>By: Nickel</title>
		<link>http://www.fivecentnickel.com/2009/09/10/just-say-no-to-the-double-house-payment-trap/comment-page-1/#comment-134798</link>
		<dc:creator>Nickel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 14:02:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fivecentnickel.com/?p=3543#comment-134798</guid>
		<description>Kevin: We had about a 3 day overlap when we sold our last house and moved into the new one. Even then, with a seemingly solid contract in hand, it made me a bit nervous. This was tempered, however, by the fact that the market was still hot at the time (we had an acceptable offer within three days of listing the house, and many others in the neighborhood were selling within a day of listing) as well as the fact that we could&#039;ve easily afforded the payments on both for quite some time.

To us, the risk of carrying the old house for a few extra months (which would&#039;ve been the absolute worst possible scenario -- a much more likely scenario at the time would&#039;ve been an extra month or so to re-list and sell the house) was well worth not having to suffer through multiple moves with four young kids (mainly due to the stress it would&#039;ve placed on the kids).

In the end, it worked out, but I certainly wouldn&#039;t roll the dice like that in the current market.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kevin: We had about a 3 day overlap when we sold our last house and moved into the new one. Even then, with a seemingly solid contract in hand, it made me a bit nervous. This was tempered, however, by the fact that the market was still hot at the time (we had an acceptable offer within three days of listing the house, and many others in the neighborhood were selling within a day of listing) as well as the fact that we could&#8217;ve easily afforded the payments on both for quite some time.</p>
<p>To us, the risk of carrying the old house for a few extra months (which would&#8217;ve been the absolute worst possible scenario &#8212; a much more likely scenario at the time would&#8217;ve been an extra month or so to re-list and sell the house) was well worth not having to suffer through multiple moves with four young kids (mainly due to the stress it would&#8217;ve placed on the kids).</p>
<p>In the end, it worked out, but I certainly wouldn&#8217;t roll the dice like that in the current market.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin@OutOfYourRut</title>
		<link>http://www.fivecentnickel.com/2009/09/10/just-say-no-to-the-double-house-payment-trap/comment-page-1/#comment-134796</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin@OutOfYourRut</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 13:51:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fivecentnickel.com/?p=3543#comment-134796</guid>
		<description>Ron--that&#039;s actually no minor point.  So many people put themselves in financial jeopardy by being too optimistic in their projections about the outcome.

When you&#039;re juggling two enormous transactions at once, you really need to consider the potential for a worst case outcome.  Not that you should go in expecting it, but rather being prepared to deal with it.  

This is one of those areas where some planning can really make a huge difference.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ron&#8211;that&#8217;s actually no minor point.  So many people put themselves in financial jeopardy by being too optimistic in their projections about the outcome.</p>
<p>When you&#8217;re juggling two enormous transactions at once, you really need to consider the potential for a worst case outcome.  Not that you should go in expecting it, but rather being prepared to deal with it.  </p>
<p>This is one of those areas where some planning can really make a huge difference.</p>
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		<title>By: Jacob E</title>
		<link>http://www.fivecentnickel.com/2009/09/10/just-say-no-to-the-double-house-payment-trap/comment-page-1/#comment-134795</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob E</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 13:49:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fivecentnickel.com/?p=3543#comment-134795</guid>
		<description>We just did something similar to this.  We moved into an apartment that is a shorter commute for my wife and we&#039;re attempting to get the house in sellable condition.  Paying rent and the mortgage isn&#039;t going to bankrupt us but it is a significant portion of our income.  I&#039;m hoping it will sell quickly, but we&#039;ll see.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We just did something similar to this.  We moved into an apartment that is a shorter commute for my wife and we&#8217;re attempting to get the house in sellable condition.  Paying rent and the mortgage isn&#8217;t going to bankrupt us but it is a significant portion of our income.  I&#8217;m hoping it will sell quickly, but we&#8217;ll see.</p>
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		<title>By: Ron</title>
		<link>http://www.fivecentnickel.com/2009/09/10/just-say-no-to-the-double-house-payment-trap/comment-page-1/#comment-134794</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 13:42:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fivecentnickel.com/?p=3543#comment-134794</guid>
		<description>&quot;Note: seller optimism is not a factor in the marketability of your house.&quot; 

That&#039;s the honest truth! I would add -- neither is real estate listing agent optimism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Note: seller optimism is not a factor in the marketability of your house.&#8221; </p>
<p>That&#8217;s the honest truth! I would add &#8212; neither is real estate listing agent optimism.</p>
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