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	<title>Comments on: Independent Contractor vs. Employee: What&#8217;s the Difference?</title>
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	<link>http://www.fivecentnickel.com/2010/02/19/independent-contractor-vs-employee-whats-the-difference/</link>
	<description>personal finance tips, tricks, and commentary</description>
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		<title>By: John @ TheChristianDollar.com</title>
		<link>http://www.fivecentnickel.com/2010/02/19/independent-contractor-vs-employee-whats-the-difference/comment-page-1/#comment-140695</link>
		<dc:creator>John @ TheChristianDollar.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Feb 2010 05:14:42 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Great article on something that so many people try to get away with!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great article on something that so many people try to get away with!</p>
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		<title>By: geo</title>
		<link>http://www.fivecentnickel.com/2010/02/19/independent-contractor-vs-employee-whats-the-difference/comment-page-1/#comment-140655</link>
		<dc:creator>geo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:29:55 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&quot;The fact of the matter is though, who the heck is going to issue their housekeeper a 1099 MISC? Very few people would even think to do that.&quot;

Ignorance is not an excuse, and this is where people get into trouble. &quot;It&#039;s just a housekeeper&quot; will not convince the auditor. If you are handing someone hundreds of dollars, then its your responsibility to understand the relevant tax law. The person you are paying, of course, is also responsible to know the tax law from their perspective, but you have no control over that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The fact of the matter is though, who the heck is going to issue their housekeeper a 1099 MISC? Very few people would even think to do that.&#8221;</p>
<p>Ignorance is not an excuse, and this is where people get into trouble. &#8220;It&#8217;s just a housekeeper&#8221; will not convince the auditor. If you are handing someone hundreds of dollars, then its your responsibility to understand the relevant tax law. The person you are paying, of course, is also responsible to know the tax law from their perspective, but you have no control over that.</p>
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		<title>By: Snowballer</title>
		<link>http://www.fivecentnickel.com/2010/02/19/independent-contractor-vs-employee-whats-the-difference/comment-page-1/#comment-140611</link>
		<dc:creator>Snowballer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Feb 2010 22:05:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fivecentnickel.com/?p=3971#comment-140611</guid>
		<description>Mrs. Accountability:  Thank you, that&#039;s what I was driving at, trying to point out the absurdities of expecting all clients to act as employers and take care of FICA and withholding and such when it&#039;s the housekeeper&#039;s responsibility to report her own income.

The fact of the matter is though, who the heck is going to issue their housekeeper a 1099 MISC?  Very few people would even think to do that.  A business client probably would but not some individual, who probably just writes her a check or pays cash and thinks nothing of it.

Most small businesses are just on their own to honestly report their income and keep records proving their income is what they say it is.

I&#039;m sure lots of people cheat but then again lots of people don&#039;t.

Again, it&#039;s substance vs. form.  If the housekeeper does multiple clients, drives herself around, brings her own cleaning supplies she&#039;s self employed.  If she worked for one person consistently all the time, she&#039;s an employee.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mrs. Accountability:  Thank you, that&#8217;s what I was driving at, trying to point out the absurdities of expecting all clients to act as employers and take care of FICA and withholding and such when it&#8217;s the housekeeper&#8217;s responsibility to report her own income.</p>
<p>The fact of the matter is though, who the heck is going to issue their housekeeper a 1099 MISC?  Very few people would even think to do that.  A business client probably would but not some individual, who probably just writes her a check or pays cash and thinks nothing of it.</p>
<p>Most small businesses are just on their own to honestly report their income and keep records proving their income is what they say it is.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure lots of people cheat but then again lots of people don&#8217;t.</p>
<p>Again, it&#8217;s substance vs. form.  If the housekeeper does multiple clients, drives herself around, brings her own cleaning supplies she&#8217;s self employed.  If she worked for one person consistently all the time, she&#8217;s an employee.</p>
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		<title>By: Ron</title>
		<link>http://www.fivecentnickel.com/2010/02/19/independent-contractor-vs-employee-whats-the-difference/comment-page-1/#comment-140591</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Feb 2010 05:10:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fivecentnickel.com/?p=3971#comment-140591</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not a &quot;tax&quot; expert, but I am a Human Resources expert. It all boils down to How, When, and Where. We hire IC&#039;s all the time.

How the work is done and how much of the IC&#039;s income comes from you.

When the work is done. It has to be reasonable of course,  and there can be some stipulations (by Wednesday, no later than the 15th of next month, etc) but not so specific as to define an exact time. In the case of a housekeeper, it the door is locked between 8am and noon, she will undoubtedly understand she will show up after lunch.

Where the work is done. In most IC cases, there is an understood degree of reasonableness here as well. The lawn service HAS to perform their work on YOUR lawn, right? In the case of the housekeeper, you CAN tell them to NOT clean the garage, the master bedroom or whatever room you wish. You can&#039;t tell a web designer to show up at your office to do all the work or tell your IC sales staff that they have to come into the office to do a physical inventory.

The best bet is to set up a contract, outlining what work is to be done, the amount to be paid, and who will be responsible for the taxes.

Oh yeah, you might want to make sure they have their own insurance (worker&#039;s comp and liability) and that they are bonded.

PS - generally politicians get in trouble with housekeeper&#039;s taxes because the housekeeper works ONLY for them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not a &#8220;tax&#8221; expert, but I am a Human Resources expert. It all boils down to How, When, and Where. We hire IC&#8217;s all the time.</p>
<p>How the work is done and how much of the IC&#8217;s income comes from you.</p>
<p>When the work is done. It has to be reasonable of course,  and there can be some stipulations (by Wednesday, no later than the 15th of next month, etc) but not so specific as to define an exact time. In the case of a housekeeper, it the door is locked between 8am and noon, she will undoubtedly understand she will show up after lunch.</p>
<p>Where the work is done. In most IC cases, there is an understood degree of reasonableness here as well. The lawn service HAS to perform their work on YOUR lawn, right? In the case of the housekeeper, you CAN tell them to NOT clean the garage, the master bedroom or whatever room you wish. You can&#8217;t tell a web designer to show up at your office to do all the work or tell your IC sales staff that they have to come into the office to do a physical inventory.</p>
<p>The best bet is to set up a contract, outlining what work is to be done, the amount to be paid, and who will be responsible for the taxes.</p>
<p>Oh yeah, you might want to make sure they have their own insurance (worker&#8217;s comp and liability) and that they are bonded.</p>
<p>PS &#8211; generally politicians get in trouble with housekeeper&#8217;s taxes because the housekeeper works ONLY for them.</p>
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		<title>By: Doctor Stock</title>
		<link>http://www.fivecentnickel.com/2010/02/19/independent-contractor-vs-employee-whats-the-difference/comment-page-1/#comment-140587</link>
		<dc:creator>Doctor Stock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Feb 2010 03:55:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fivecentnickel.com/?p=3971#comment-140587</guid>
		<description>I suspect most government tax agencies error on the side of screwing the individual and making sure they don&#039;t have such loopholes :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suspect most government tax agencies error on the side of screwing the individual and making sure they don&#8217;t have such loopholes <img src='http://www.fivecentnickel.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Mrs. Accountability</title>
		<link>http://www.fivecentnickel.com/2010/02/19/independent-contractor-vs-employee-whats-the-difference/comment-page-1/#comment-140581</link>
		<dc:creator>Mrs. Accountability</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Feb 2010 00:23:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fivecentnickel.com/?p=3971#comment-140581</guid>
		<description>Regarding Snowballer&#039;s comment: W2s are issued by employers who are required by law to collect and report quarterly withholding taxes.  So it would more likely be a 1099-MISC issued by all 20 clients. This was a question for our accountant recently because my husband pays our son to work with him in his business. If my husband had our son working with him on a regular basis, we would be required to file Form 941 every quarter, collecting and paying SS, Medicare and Federal withholding taxes. But since he works with him sporadically, we only have to issue the 1099-MISC.  The IRS expects the housekeeper to report all income, regardless of whether a 1099-MISC was issued or not...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding Snowballer&#8217;s comment: W2s are issued by employers who are required by law to collect and report quarterly withholding taxes.  So it would more likely be a 1099-MISC issued by all 20 clients. This was a question for our accountant recently because my husband pays our son to work with him in his business. If my husband had our son working with him on a regular basis, we would be required to file Form 941 every quarter, collecting and paying SS, Medicare and Federal withholding taxes. But since he works with him sporadically, we only have to issue the 1099-MISC.  The IRS expects the housekeeper to report all income, regardless of whether a 1099-MISC was issued or not&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Snowballer</title>
		<link>http://www.fivecentnickel.com/2010/02/19/independent-contractor-vs-employee-whats-the-difference/comment-page-1/#comment-140577</link>
		<dc:creator>Snowballer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Feb 2010 21:54:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fivecentnickel.com/?p=3971#comment-140577</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s an issue of substance v. form.

Thought exercise: everyone that hires this housekeeper is supposed to issue her a W2?  So if she has 20 clients, she gets 20 W2s?  Are you serious?

You really expect 20 people who probably don&#039;t know how to issue a W2?

I can&#039;t imagine the housekeeper does anything other than put her income on a Schedule C and deduct the costs of her supplies, depreciation, vehicle expenses, etc. and wind up paying the SE taxes on it.  The housekeeper might use an S corporation perhaps but the same basic thing would apply as she&#039;d have to pay herself as officer of the corporation.

Now if this were a situation where she were somebody&#039;s household servant, yes she&#039;d be an employee and declare the income as wages.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s an issue of substance v. form.</p>
<p>Thought exercise: everyone that hires this housekeeper is supposed to issue her a W2?  So if she has 20 clients, she gets 20 W2s?  Are you serious?</p>
<p>You really expect 20 people who probably don&#8217;t know how to issue a W2?</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t imagine the housekeeper does anything other than put her income on a Schedule C and deduct the costs of her supplies, depreciation, vehicle expenses, etc. and wind up paying the SE taxes on it.  The housekeeper might use an S corporation perhaps but the same basic thing would apply as she&#8217;d have to pay herself as officer of the corporation.</p>
<p>Now if this were a situation where she were somebody&#8217;s household servant, yes she&#8217;d be an employee and declare the income as wages.</p>
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		<title>By: mightymouselives</title>
		<link>http://www.fivecentnickel.com/2010/02/19/independent-contractor-vs-employee-whats-the-difference/comment-page-1/#comment-140573</link>
		<dc:creator>mightymouselives</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Feb 2010 18:48:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fivecentnickel.com/?p=3971#comment-140573</guid>
		<description>The $1700 figure is really bizarre. A once a month housekeeper might easily charge $150 a day, that&#039;s 1800 right there. I can&#039;t imagine treating a once a month person as an employee. Why would this be?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The $1700 figure is really bizarre. A once a month housekeeper might easily charge $150 a day, that&#8217;s 1800 right there. I can&#8217;t imagine treating a once a month person as an employee. Why would this be?</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin M</title>
		<link>http://www.fivecentnickel.com/2010/02/19/independent-contractor-vs-employee-whats-the-difference/comment-page-1/#comment-140571</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Feb 2010 17:45:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fivecentnickel.com/?p=3971#comment-140571</guid>
		<description>This is a tricky situation (employee vs. independent contractor) and the IRS really likes to scrutinize it - although for these small dollar amounts maybe not.  It really does take analysis of all the facts and circumstances on a case by case basis. I&#039;m surprised the author didn&#039;t look into IRS Publication 926, since it&#039;s directly on point.

http://www.irs.gov/publications/p926/index.html

Specifically this seems to apply to JD:
Workers who are not your employees.   If only the worker can control how the work is done, the worker is not your employee but is self-employed. A self-employed worker usually provides his or her own tools and offers services to the general public in an independent business.

In my professional experience, JD is probably ok, unless his housekeeper comes along later and claims she was an employee and taxes should have been withheld.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a tricky situation (employee vs. independent contractor) and the IRS really likes to scrutinize it &#8211; although for these small dollar amounts maybe not.  It really does take analysis of all the facts and circumstances on a case by case basis. I&#8217;m surprised the author didn&#8217;t look into IRS Publication 926, since it&#8217;s directly on point.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.irs.gov/publications/p926/index.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.irs.gov/publications/p926/index.html</a></p>
<p>Specifically this seems to apply to JD:<br />
Workers who are not your employees.   If only the worker can control how the work is done, the worker is not your employee but is self-employed. A self-employed worker usually provides his or her own tools and offers services to the general public in an independent business.</p>
<p>In my professional experience, JD is probably ok, unless his housekeeper comes along later and claims she was an employee and taxes should have been withheld.</p>
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		<title>By: Bender</title>
		<link>http://www.fivecentnickel.com/2010/02/19/independent-contractor-vs-employee-whats-the-difference/comment-page-1/#comment-140569</link>
		<dc:creator>Bender</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Feb 2010 17:02:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fivecentnickel.com/?p=3971#comment-140569</guid>
		<description>Like Bryan said.  There are no hard and fast (black and white) rules here.  The IRS three prong test is really just an analytical framework for evaluating various factors indicative of the type of relationship.

As others have pointed out, virtually all indepedent contractors are subject to some type of behavior control.  So the mere fact that you tell your maid that you only want the upstairs cleaned isn&#039;t going to make him/her your employee.  

If you want to be bullet proof file a Form SS-8 and see what the IRS says.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Like Bryan said.  There are no hard and fast (black and white) rules here.  The IRS three prong test is really just an analytical framework for evaluating various factors indicative of the type of relationship.</p>
<p>As others have pointed out, virtually all indepedent contractors are subject to some type of behavior control.  So the mere fact that you tell your maid that you only want the upstairs cleaned isn&#8217;t going to make him/her your employee.  </p>
<p>If you want to be bullet proof file a Form SS-8 and see what the IRS says.</p>
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		<title>By: therealdebtsolution</title>
		<link>http://www.fivecentnickel.com/2010/02/19/independent-contractor-vs-employee-whats-the-difference/comment-page-1/#comment-140565</link>
		<dc:creator>therealdebtsolution</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Feb 2010 14:12:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fivecentnickel.com/?p=3971#comment-140565</guid>
		<description>I have a unique perspective when it comes to independent contractors.  I have owned and operated a weekly advertising magazine for 20 years and I&#039;ve always filed my sales teams as independent contractors.  And I have a housekeeper that&#039;s an independent contractor.

Basically this is what I&#039;ve learned from real experience.  The IRS has what&#039;s in writing and what&#039;s in practice.  This is way everyone is confused about tax laws.  We can see that from the guy that just flew the plan into the IRS bld. in Austin Texas.

It really comes down to this...the IRS considers an independent contractor someone that doesn&#039;t solely work for you.  That&#039;s why travel agencies are the most audited firms.  The travel agent usually works in an office provided by their contractor and they can&#039;t book for another travel firm they must book through the firm they are working at.

So are they really independent?  Yes and No!  So this is what usually happens.  When the firm turns in their 1099 statements claiming the money paid to their independent contractors to the IRS the IRS will then check to see if the independent contractors paid the tax on that money.  If they didn&#039;t they will contact the contractor if they don&#039;t pay the IRS usually goes after the contractor.

NOTE: this is only when an audit is performed.  Millions of companies get away with this every year!

In summary...if you only allow your housekeeper, salesreps, handyman crew to only work for you they are technically not an independent contractor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a unique perspective when it comes to independent contractors.  I have owned and operated a weekly advertising magazine for 20 years and I&#8217;ve always filed my sales teams as independent contractors.  And I have a housekeeper that&#8217;s an independent contractor.</p>
<p>Basically this is what I&#8217;ve learned from real experience.  The IRS has what&#8217;s in writing and what&#8217;s in practice.  This is way everyone is confused about tax laws.  We can see that from the guy that just flew the plan into the IRS bld. in Austin Texas.</p>
<p>It really comes down to this&#8230;the IRS considers an independent contractor someone that doesn&#8217;t solely work for you.  That&#8217;s why travel agencies are the most audited firms.  The travel agent usually works in an office provided by their contractor and they can&#8217;t book for another travel firm they must book through the firm they are working at.</p>
<p>So are they really independent?  Yes and No!  So this is what usually happens.  When the firm turns in their 1099 statements claiming the money paid to their independent contractors to the IRS the IRS will then check to see if the independent contractors paid the tax on that money.  If they didn&#8217;t they will contact the contractor if they don&#8217;t pay the IRS usually goes after the contractor.</p>
<p>NOTE: this is only when an audit is performed.  Millions of companies get away with this every year!</p>
<p>In summary&#8230;if you only allow your housekeeper, salesreps, handyman crew to only work for you they are technically not an independent contractor.</p>
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		<title>By: almost there</title>
		<link>http://www.fivecentnickel.com/2010/02/19/independent-contractor-vs-employee-whats-the-difference/comment-page-1/#comment-140561</link>
		<dc:creator>almost there</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Feb 2010 12:12:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fivecentnickel.com/?p=3971#comment-140561</guid>
		<description>Lynn is correct on the over $1700 rule. Incidently, my spouse worked as a paramed doing insurance physicals. The company shafted her by treating her as an IC and not an employee. I called the IRS on this and they said that if the employer tells the person where to be to perform the work that they were an employee. Clearly the appointment schedule dictated by the employer told her to go to take the physicals. But if she wanted to work it was to be as an IC according to her employer.  We figured out that she was making less than minimum wage based on the amount of time she was putting in driving all over and the pre and post physical paperwork, faxing, and phone calls. She didn&#039;t have that job many years.
     As far as housekeepers go, don&#039;t politicians always get in trouble because they hire houskeepers and do not pay them as an employee (as a tax dodge) and then the press gets wind of it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lynn is correct on the over $1700 rule. Incidently, my spouse worked as a paramed doing insurance physicals. The company shafted her by treating her as an IC and not an employee. I called the IRS on this and they said that if the employer tells the person where to be to perform the work that they were an employee. Clearly the appointment schedule dictated by the employer told her to go to take the physicals. But if she wanted to work it was to be as an IC according to her employer.  We figured out that she was making less than minimum wage based on the amount of time she was putting in driving all over and the pre and post physical paperwork, faxing, and phone calls. She didn&#8217;t have that job many years.<br />
     As far as housekeepers go, don&#8217;t politicians always get in trouble because they hire houskeepers and do not pay them as an employee (as a tax dodge) and then the press gets wind of it?</p>
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		<title>By: Nickel</title>
		<link>http://www.fivecentnickel.com/2010/02/19/independent-contractor-vs-employee-whats-the-difference/comment-page-1/#comment-140547</link>
		<dc:creator>Nickel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2010 22:59:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fivecentnickel.com/?p=3971#comment-140547</guid>
		<description>Jenny: Merry Maids is a different thing entirely. In that case, you are paying a company a service fee and they have *their* W-2 employees come to your house and clean it. They are *not* an independent contractor, and you do not need to issue them a 1099.

The argument that an &quot;independent&quot; housekeeper qualifies as a business owner who employs him/herself is an interesting one, but I suspect that it would only hold water if they had actually incorporated and were doing a formal payroll (and issuing themselves a W-2).

I bet many independent housekeepers don&#039;t do this because they&#039;d prefer to keep their income &quot;off the books.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jenny: Merry Maids is a different thing entirely. In that case, you are paying a company a service fee and they have *their* W-2 employees come to your house and clean it. They are *not* an independent contractor, and you do not need to issue them a 1099.</p>
<p>The argument that an &#8220;independent&#8221; housekeeper qualifies as a business owner who employs him/herself is an interesting one, but I suspect that it would only hold water if they had actually incorporated and were doing a formal payroll (and issuing themselves a W-2).</p>
<p>I bet many independent housekeepers don&#8217;t do this because they&#8217;d prefer to keep their income &#8220;off the books.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://www.fivecentnickel.com/2010/02/19/independent-contractor-vs-employee-whats-the-difference/comment-page-1/#comment-140545</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2010 22:57:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fivecentnickel.com/?p=3971#comment-140545</guid>
		<description>missjulied,

I can imagine a situation where a person has four or five legitimate part-time jobs for separate employers.  (Say four gigs each at 20 hours.)  In this case the person truly is an employee of each of them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>missjulied,</p>
<p>I can imagine a situation where a person has four or five legitimate part-time jobs for separate employers.  (Say four gigs each at 20 hours.)  In this case the person truly is an employee of each of them.</p>
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		<title>By: Lynn</title>
		<link>http://www.fivecentnickel.com/2010/02/19/independent-contractor-vs-employee-whats-the-difference/comment-page-1/#comment-140541</link>
		<dc:creator>Lynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2010 22:40:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fivecentnickel.com/?p=3971#comment-140541</guid>
		<description>Jenny - good point.   My responses were based solely on an individual coming into your house and cleaning and you paying cash etc...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jenny &#8211; good point.   My responses were based solely on an individual coming into your house and cleaning and you paying cash etc&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://www.fivecentnickel.com/2010/02/19/independent-contractor-vs-employee-whats-the-difference/comment-page-1/#comment-140539</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2010 22:35:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fivecentnickel.com/?p=3971#comment-140539</guid>
		<description>I like the circular logic that the IRS uses:

&quot;Household employees include... [anybody] who work[s] in or around your private residence as your employees.&quot;

IC&#039;s are:

&quot;... other business people who work for you as independent contractors are not your employees.&quot;

Now, I can&#039;t think of *any* example wrt Independent Contractors where the paying party provides *no* direction whatsoever to the IC.  Simply telling somebody to clean my apartment or mow my grass doesn&#039;t constitute instruction IMHO.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like the circular logic that the IRS uses:</p>
<p>&#8220;Household employees include&#8230; [anybody] who work[s] in or around your private residence as your employees.&#8221;</p>
<p>IC&#8217;s are:</p>
<p>&#8220;&#8230; other business people who work for you as independent contractors are not your employees.&#8221;</p>
<p>Now, I can&#8217;t think of *any* example wrt Independent Contractors where the paying party provides *no* direction whatsoever to the IC.  Simply telling somebody to clean my apartment or mow my grass doesn&#8217;t constitute instruction IMHO.</p>
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		<title>By: Jenny</title>
		<link>http://www.fivecentnickel.com/2010/02/19/independent-contractor-vs-employee-whats-the-difference/comment-page-1/#comment-140535</link>
		<dc:creator>Jenny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2010 22:22:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fivecentnickel.com/?p=3971#comment-140535</guid>
		<description>I think it depends on the nature of the Housekeeper&#039;s business. If Merry Maids comes into your home and cleans it, they&#039;re an independent contractor just as if a plumber who works for a plumbing company comes into your home is an independent contractor. If the housekeeper has a company for cleaning houses, it would seem to me that she&#039;d be an independent contractor - if she has a business license and files taxes etc as a business. I don&#039;t think the homeowner would be liable for taxes since it&#039;s a business.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it depends on the nature of the Housekeeper&#8217;s business. If Merry Maids comes into your home and cleans it, they&#8217;re an independent contractor just as if a plumber who works for a plumbing company comes into your home is an independent contractor. If the housekeeper has a company for cleaning houses, it would seem to me that she&#8217;d be an independent contractor &#8211; if she has a business license and files taxes etc as a business. I don&#8217;t think the homeowner would be liable for taxes since it&#8217;s a business.</p>
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		<title>By: J.D.</title>
		<link>http://www.fivecentnickel.com/2010/02/19/independent-contractor-vs-employee-whats-the-difference/comment-page-1/#comment-140533</link>
		<dc:creator>J.D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2010 22:21:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fivecentnickel.com/?p=3971#comment-140533</guid>
		<description>Now I have something else to ask my accountant about when we take in our taxes! :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now I have something else to ask my accountant about when we take in our taxes! <img src='http://www.fivecentnickel.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Lynn</title>
		<link>http://www.fivecentnickel.com/2010/02/19/independent-contractor-vs-employee-whats-the-difference/comment-page-1/#comment-140531</link>
		<dc:creator>Lynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2010 21:58:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fivecentnickel.com/?p=3971#comment-140531</guid>
		<description>The IRS publication is pretty clear. They use lawn service as an example. My interpretation as it refers to a housecleaner: If you have a person that cleans your whole house how they want, uses his/her own cleaners, rags, vacuum, etc then it wouldn&#039;t be your employee.  If you provide any of the cleaners and equipment and/or specify you only want the upstairs/downstairs or specific rooms cleaned and exactly how you want them done then they are your employee.  The question is how to prove it if there is ever an audit of any kind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The IRS publication is pretty clear. They use lawn service as an example. My interpretation as it refers to a housecleaner: If you have a person that cleans your whole house how they want, uses his/her own cleaners, rags, vacuum, etc then it wouldn&#8217;t be your employee.  If you provide any of the cleaners and equipment and/or specify you only want the upstairs/downstairs or specific rooms cleaned and exactly how you want them done then they are your employee.  The question is how to prove it if there is ever an audit of any kind.</p>
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		<title>By: Bryan</title>
		<link>http://www.fivecentnickel.com/2010/02/19/independent-contractor-vs-employee-whats-the-difference/comment-page-1/#comment-140529</link>
		<dc:creator>Bryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2010 21:45:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fivecentnickel.com/?p=3971#comment-140529</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve gotten the impression from that section of the tax law that the real answer is, it depends.  For example a full time housekeeper is definitely your employee.  However, as with JD&#039;s case where they come in once a week to clean they are an employee of the housekeeping service they work for, even if it is their own business and would therefore be an independent contractor to you.

Also as far as controlling the work they do and how they do it.  I&#039;m sure they tell her what to clean but I would assume its largely up to the housekeeper if she wants to clean the kitchen first then the bathroom then the rest of the house, or some other order.  To me control over how they do the work would be like saying ok you are going to use 409 on the bathroom with paper towels then soft scrub and a sponge in the tub, when you get to the kitchen use mr clean and make sure the final wipe is in vertical lines.  Obviously this seems a bit extreme for a housekeeper, but is more vague than instructions you would find in a production factory.  Basically I think the housekeeper wouldn&#039;t be an employee because they have more autonomy over how the job gets done.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve gotten the impression from that section of the tax law that the real answer is, it depends.  For example a full time housekeeper is definitely your employee.  However, as with JD&#8217;s case where they come in once a week to clean they are an employee of the housekeeping service they work for, even if it is their own business and would therefore be an independent contractor to you.</p>
<p>Also as far as controlling the work they do and how they do it.  I&#8217;m sure they tell her what to clean but I would assume its largely up to the housekeeper if she wants to clean the kitchen first then the bathroom then the rest of the house, or some other order.  To me control over how they do the work would be like saying ok you are going to use 409 on the bathroom with paper towels then soft scrub and a sponge in the tub, when you get to the kitchen use mr clean and make sure the final wipe is in vertical lines.  Obviously this seems a bit extreme for a housekeeper, but is more vague than instructions you would find in a production factory.  Basically I think the housekeeper wouldn&#8217;t be an employee because they have more autonomy over how the job gets done.</p>
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		<title>By: Lynn</title>
		<link>http://www.fivecentnickel.com/2010/02/19/independent-contractor-vs-employee-whats-the-difference/comment-page-1/#comment-140527</link>
		<dc:creator>Lynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2010 21:27:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fivecentnickel.com/?p=3971#comment-140527</guid>
		<description>The gov&#039;t considers house keepers to be household employees.  However, if you paid less than $1700 to a household employee in 2009 (&amp; 2010) you don&#039;t have to pay employment taxes. Over $1700 then you have to pay FICA.  If you paid over $1000 in any calendar quarter in 2009 or 2010 then you also have to pay unemployment.  Just keep these numbers into account when hiring someone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The gov&#8217;t considers house keepers to be household employees.  However, if you paid less than $1700 to a household employee in 2009 (&amp; 2010) you don&#8217;t have to pay employment taxes. Over $1700 then you have to pay FICA.  If you paid over $1000 in any calendar quarter in 2009 or 2010 then you also have to pay unemployment.  Just keep these numbers into account when hiring someone.</p>
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		<title>By: missjulied</title>
		<link>http://www.fivecentnickel.com/2010/02/19/independent-contractor-vs-employee-whats-the-difference/comment-page-1/#comment-140525</link>
		<dc:creator>missjulied</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2010 21:16:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fivecentnickel.com/?p=3971#comment-140525</guid>
		<description>Maybe she&#039;d be their employee if she worked for them full-time, or for them alone, but she clearly has her own business working for a bunch of different clients. Is she supposed to be an &quot;employee&quot; of ALL of them? That just doesn&#039;t make sense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe she&#8217;d be their employee if she worked for them full-time, or for them alone, but she clearly has her own business working for a bunch of different clients. Is she supposed to be an &#8220;employee&#8221; of ALL of them? That just doesn&#8217;t make sense.</p>
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		<title>By: My Frugal Miser</title>
		<link>http://www.fivecentnickel.com/2010/02/19/independent-contractor-vs-employee-whats-the-difference/comment-page-1/#comment-140519</link>
		<dc:creator>My Frugal Miser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2010 20:55:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fivecentnickel.com/?p=3971#comment-140519</guid>
		<description>Lakita - that&#039;s not necessarily true.  If I am paid on a 1099, I can deduct the expenses associated with generating the income.  For example, I can use a home office to schedule my work and plan my day, and then &quot;travel&quot; to where I am going to perform the work, deducting the mileage both ways.  An employee can&#039;t do this.

Since I can deduct these expenses from the income reported on my 1099, the amount that I actually pay taxes on will be something less than the total amount I as an employee would be taxed on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lakita &#8211; that&#8217;s not necessarily true.  If I am paid on a 1099, I can deduct the expenses associated with generating the income.  For example, I can use a home office to schedule my work and plan my day, and then &#8220;travel&#8221; to where I am going to perform the work, deducting the mileage both ways.  An employee can&#8217;t do this.</p>
<p>Since I can deduct these expenses from the income reported on my 1099, the amount that I actually pay taxes on will be something less than the total amount I as an employee would be taxed on.</p>
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		<title>By: Lakita (PFJourney)</title>
		<link>http://www.fivecentnickel.com/2010/02/19/independent-contractor-vs-employee-whats-the-difference/comment-page-1/#comment-140515</link>
		<dc:creator>Lakita (PFJourney)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2010 20:22:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fivecentnickel.com/?p=3971#comment-140515</guid>
		<description>Interesting...I thought the relationship was more based on the agreement between the client and service provider...the main difference being who is responsible for paying the taxes.  I mean, they would get paid either way right?

Either 
a. Employer withdrawals taxes and makes payment
b. Service provider&#039;s income recorded on 1099 and makes payment

Thanks for bringing this up.  I&#039;d like to know the definitive answer on this as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting&#8230;I thought the relationship was more based on the agreement between the client and service provider&#8230;the main difference being who is responsible for paying the taxes.  I mean, they would get paid either way right?</p>
<p>Either<br />
a. Employer withdrawals taxes and makes payment<br />
b. Service provider&#8217;s income recorded on 1099 and makes payment</p>
<p>Thanks for bringing this up.  I&#8217;d like to know the definitive answer on this as well.</p>
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